Valhalla guards buff and other neutrals, campaign objects

[ParaworldFan]

Here I would like to demonstrate all ideas how to buff campaign neutrals:
here changes

[ParaworldFan]

Here also with cole bonus, level ups for vlahalla guards. Like by leveling up not only damage increase, but also hp and skulls

[Scrat]

are those units even used, except avatar and Babbit's exo suit? and aren't they all lvl5 in the first place so leveling them up isn't possible?
(i never really understood the purpose of downleveling and how it works)

[ParaworldFan]

No, no one of them don’t have captain level. And how I figured out, every unit in mirage have, level bonuses, even avatar from epoch 6, so would be good, to not offend out small neutral creeps:D

[ParaworldFan]

Current Mirage hu_undead_warrior fully upgraded and with babbit level 5 bonus have 99 armor from melee attacks. This should be decreased I think, so it would be more interesting to play vs not upgraded version of them and also makes senses for upgrades buffs for them. Though if also they will enable defensive mode, they will have currently 99 armor from both attacks and about 4k hitpoints, what makes it the top strongest unit of mirage.

[MrMorgana]

for the sake of mp version of the campaign use tt filters, normally the things you mentioned never occur

[ParaworldFan]

I couldn’t translate this sentence completely, so I am just mention that this unit on any custom map or not where it given by player, could be buffed with Babbage to unskillable version with Babbage if player plays as Norseman
Just want to mention that original hu_undead_warrior had only 20 melee defense and 30 rangeddefense from start, while mirage ones having both of them around 50, and their spawn on 8 mission was multipled twicely: like in original was spawning 16 units on hard level, while in mirage spawning 32 units on the the same level difficulty. And +30 rangeddefense and +20 defense they are getting from upgrades, so makesno sense of using them with artifacts like iron amulet or ring of rangeddefense, as well as upgrading the babbage to level 5. I Think, normally we can put original armor as hu_undead_warrior_stats, and with upgrades it became 50 and 50 armor, with babbage buff it will increase up to 70, with artifacts to 80, and adding defensive mode will make their armor up to 90,which makes them pretty close to the current armor now. and they still will be able to killed. I don't think, this change somehow will affect map balance, since in mirage SP you enabled upgrades for vallhalla guards, and pretty same way if we need, you can bring them with old armor (means 70 and 80) back, by tricking with artifacts and hero buff...Btw it would be cool, to make difference of their armor on difrrent difficulties, for example on easy makes them only with upgraded armor (or without) on medium upgraded and buffed with hero, and on hard, fully buffed. I think it makesgameplay on level 8 much more comfortable for different player skills, than now most of not skilled players suffering from this strong army and wasting around 30 time or maybe a hour to kill them because they don't know how.

[MrMorgana]

What my sentence means, that you are talking about a unit, which is NOT supposed to be used other than in original, single player campaign. That is the reason the undead warrior that you can train if you have Kleemann on level 4 is a different unit/class, with different stats (attack, defense, hitpoints, etc). For the same reason has other special units and buildings from campaign (like seas big cannon, big pirate ship) new implementations for multiplayer. So although you can give players such things by making a custom map, it should be avoided. That is also why crash RPG has its own special unit classes.
But it is understandable that if you make multiplayer version of the campaign, you need to do something about such scenarios (like them getting bonus from Babbit), by either making new classes or solving in a different way. If you don't make new classes (which is good, because that would mean more work and source of new potential problems), it is better not to make general changes, which also affects singleplayer campaign (although that is certainly easier), but instead make the desired balance in multiplayer campaign by techtree filters (which can also be activated on custom multiplayer maps anytime).
Those changes in MIRAGE version of sp. campaign (compared to original game or boosterpack) were made for a reason, (and although i'm getting tired of being constantly questioned about them) but they don't really matter in the end, since the current, obviously harder version of the sp. campaign will be removed completely in the next build (as we spoke about it in discord already), ofc the fewer undead warriors will still be stronger

[ParaworldFan]

If you remove the mirage campaign, that means undead_warrior will have default armor 50 and 50. So, it won’t be so strong. Any way, what to do with multi campaign? Making a whole new unit for this small reason?

[ParaworldFan]

Btw, just thinker a cool idea of balance. Since mirage version of campaign will be removed, and you are hardly disagreeing to change some stats for hu_undead_warrior atleast for abit, than why we still need and upgrading ability for this unit, since you mentioned that this unit not able to be used in multiplayer, and in original campaign player3 which is to be Valhalla guards are not having any upgrades because originally they didn’t had, so my suggestion is to simply remove warrior defense upgrade for hu_undead_warrior. In calculation it will perfectly solve the armor problem, and we not lost anything, because neither it will be removed or leaves it will be noticed only on my map, since it’s only one map which uses an upgraded hu_undead_warriors?

[MrMorgana]

You don't fully understand what i wrote. I specifically said, that you should rather make and use techtree filters instead of making new class (which are the other two options if you don't change default stats for a unit, but want to change balance for any map).
And yes, that they are getting bonus from warrior will be removed as well.

[ParaworldFan]

Remove only armor bonus plz, leave the damage bonus, it’s pretty great suit them.
Lol, why I need to experiment with TT filters, while removing defense upgrade solving problem xD?

[MrMorgana]

to learn

[ParaworldFan]

Well practice are good indeed, thought right now I am more interested in making this kind of filter:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2395