Dragon clan nerfs

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ParaworldFan
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Dragon clan nerfs

Post by ParaworldFan »

Dragon clan titans is too powerful. Whole upgraded seas army with titans, turrets, buffs from speakers and disruptors, cannot beat 4 titans, with lots of monks in it. Nets are too long, range attack is too high, damage is very strong. And unit slots makes it even worse. My enemy even not used smokers, traps, monk buffs, ice spearman’s, rocket ramps. Medic abilities are useless. 20 sec of heal locking is really short, compare to fact that medic should be in close range to titan. Seas titan is really shitty unit. Has no armor piercing or splash, and their mg nests have old wamaga and short range, which stands no chance against dragon clan. And all seas army very expensive, stone and wood, while dragon clan have bamboo farm. Melee infantry which can affect titans getting killed my damn explosive rounds. Without heroes, seas don’t stand a chance vs a Dragon clan

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MrMorgana
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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by MrMorgana »

Try it out with disabling or limiting healing from transport basket.
Also medics debuff spell (the one you talked about) could get more range
Btw, i just thought about a general change for titans, for example to prevent them being trapped by most effects (seismo's enchain, rex roar, freezing), kinda like how Ultralisk is immune against spell effects

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by ParaworldFan »

I like the idea of net Imunne. Because seas titans weak, and really slow, while one titan trying to get close to the Seismosaurus, he gets three nets already, before it get to him close. And while titan is stunned seismosaurus can fall back and all starts from start. I also recommend to increase seas midic heal disabling for more than just 20 seconds

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by MrMorgana »

seas titan has speed 3, it is not that much slow, seismo has only speed 2 for example

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ParaworldFan
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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by ParaworldFan »

Nets have long work and pretty quick cooldown.

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by Scrat »

making titans and epoch 5 giant units immune to all negative spells would be quite the interesting game changer and it wouldn't even be imbalanced. i like the idea. they are big and hard to trap or frighten (rex roar) anyway, so it even makes sense lore-wise.

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by ParaworldFan »

Atleast we both agree on something

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Zidell
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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by Zidell »

It doesnt make sense, at least for seismo
Even now its hard not to misclick on enemy titan when you use enchain
Using this ability on smaller units will not be possible without a pause

Now I dont know if my seismo is close enough to the enemy so that I can use enchain.
So I need to select the seismo, then the ability, then select the target without misclicking (also due to a bad connection, ability just doesnt work) and this is only for one seismo and if it wasnt close enough to the enemy, I need to do this all again and besides, I need to control the rest of my army
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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by MrMorgana »

maybe we should just make them a little less susceptible against such effects, like trap effects duration on them is only 50% of default

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by Scrat »

i remember many spells from warcraft 3 have half (or at least smaller) duration for heroes, maybe that would be good here too (for heroes and titans, or only for heroes, or only for titans?)

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by ParaworldFan »

Suggestion:
Decrease duration of seasmo net from 18 to 8 seconds or decrease range of nets (better both)
Decrease all vehicle armor (with upgrades) except the smoke bomber to 45
Decrease Speed of ninigi machine regeneration
Remove or highly decrease monk healing upgrade (remove the range increasing upgrade)

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by MrMorgana »

you sound way too much radical, just like Player used to be
but let's discuss them
start stating your reasons :D

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by ParaworldFan »

I told them already few posts ago in this topic. Since titans have long range and good damage with splash and armor piercing, with full heal short net cool down, long ranged nets, and long stun, only triceratops titans due armor can reach them, other tribes like seas not, and dust riders is just kind of luck

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by MrMorgana »

Your reasoning is very vague(/not existent), your suggestions are much more detailed.
Try to bring them on an even level, if you understand what i mean.
Also (for example) monk healing range not really changes those facts you wrote earlier, because your whole argument states that unit dies before they could reach Seismo, so reducing/removing the healing range doesn't change that, also they are most of the times mounted on the titans, so they are protected and healing them from a really close distance to begin with.

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by ParaworldFan »

Dragon clan titans with upgraded monks cannot be killed. I ve tried different variations. Except using dragon clan against itself😂 Also dragon clan stingers is really cheap, compare to their armor, damage, and high regeneration. They was able to kill three titans, only stingers....

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by MrMorgana »

how did your opponent use monks with titans? behind them, in a safe place far away, but still in healing range?

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by ParaworldFan »

Mounted them oh him or styracosaurus, saltasaurus, also btw last tactic was working as well, they were just standing behind titans and I wasn’t able to show them down because of nets and entrench

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by MrMorgana »

i just asked, because their increased healing range doesn't really play a crucial role if they are mounted, which means, they are always able to heal the injured units (it is worth mentioning, that all tribe specific healers have greater healer range on open baskets than on foot, so even without the upgrade, you would have the same problem)
I find the other suggestions partially reasonable (mostly dc stinger armor and low price)

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by Zidell »

Proposed traps changes
Traps are invisible during construction, but they can be detected by the reveal ability
Traps are visible after attack until at least one enemy unit sees it. If the trap is invisible, the enemy doesnt see how it destroys
Traps are invulnerable and the reveal ability doesnt work on them until they attacked at least once
Snare trap - armor-piercing, adds lameness to a unit, the first attack deals 50% damage from the maximum unit hp

After the 4 epoch upgrade:
Traps are invisible during attacks if they are under the smoke tower effect

Schliemann will add two traps:
The current one
And same as first but with poison that activates after a certain time, during the attacks this trap will not lose its invisibility. Any unit poisoned by this trap will have a special icon (like with the medic parasite) that will show that this poison effect is exactly from this trap, but this icon will only be visible when the poison activates
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ParaworldFan
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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by ParaworldFan »

Should try it out, but still it’s again buffs Dragon Clan, while whole topic is about how to nerf it, not to buff

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by MrMorgana »

i don't quite get the 2 traps for Kleemann

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by MrMorgana »

ParaworldFan wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:31 am
Should try it out, but still it’s again buffs Dragon Clan, while whole topic is about how to nerf it, not to buff
i like the irony in it :D
anyways, i partially like the ideas about traps, although i thought traps are invisible even during attacks if they they near to smoke tower, i need to double check that.
The part about them being undetectable by reveal until they are triggered at least once seems to be a potential abuse option, but i support the idea that they should be immune to damage (even AOE) before being revealed and only until that state lasts. The part about lameness should be very short lasting, and the thing about dealing damage equal to 50% of the enemy unit on first activation i'm very much against. I very much like that it's poison effect should start only later, so that is harder to know where the unit walked over the trap, but i think poison trap shouldn't use different icon, because that certainly tells opponents that poison traps have been used against them. I still don't understand what do you mean by 2 traps, but if it is having 2 kind of poison traps just having different working mechanism, i think it's unnecessary.

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by Zidell »

Its 2 same poison traps but with different mechanism
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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by Scrat »

big traps are barely used because if you place them before your walls, two AoE attacks on the gate destroy most of your traps too...... them not taking damage except from direct attacks seems very good.

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Re: Dragon clan nerfs

Post by ParaworldFan »

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